Vodka, si o no??

[Yorch]

Hola, pues eso, que opinan del uso del vodka, es bueno o malo? alguien tiene info profunda de todo lo respectivo a el uso de este trago en nuestros tanques??

[Fatboy]

Yorch,

Si quieres ver donde empezó todo...... puedes leer este post de reefcentral http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288714

Esto es un extracto de lo mas importante dicho por el autor del método:

" DSB tanks react very sensitively on vodka supplementation, thus be careful! If you run a DSB without a skimmer, you should add one to your tank.

Vodka should be supplemented daily during the lighting phase.

You can start with 0.1 mL/100 L for the first three days.
Then you increase the vodka volume to 0.2 mL/100 L for day 4-7.
Subsequently to this initial week you increase the vodka dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume (this is important, do not dose on a per 100L basis, but on the total tank volume!) every week.

So, e.g. for a 500 L tank:

day 1-3: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5 mL
day 4-7: 0.2 * 5 = 1 mL
2. week (day 8-14): 1 mL + 0.5 mL = 1.5 mL
3. week: 1.5 mL + 0.5 mL = 2 mL.

After these 3 weeks you should recognize changes in the nutrient levels (nitrate, phosphate). If the nutrient levels are still unchanged, you should further increase the dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume.
As soon as you recognize either nitrate or phosphate to start dropping you shouldn't further increase the vodka volume but watch the nutrient levels, even in the first three weeks.

You should log your nutrient measurements and monitor the nutrient levels on a regular basis (every 3 days).

As Heinz said, skimming is important and you will recognize your skimmer to work much more effectively.

I have posted the dosing recommendation as I fear that people start dosing vodka by using too high volumes. "

" we need to distinguish between bacterioplankton blooms (cloudy water) and the build-up of bacterial mats.

Bacterioplankton blooms may occur when the vodka dosage is too high whereby nutrient levels drop too fast. But usually they're unlikely to occur, if the increase in the vodka dosage is slow, and one stops the further increase in vodka supplementation if one recognizes nitrate and phosphate levels to start dropping.

If bacterioplankton blooms occur, add some charcoal to the system and increase the skimming efficiency (wet skimming).

High detritus and POM load in the tank may lead to the build-up of bacterial mats, however, this is also an effect of too high vodka dosages and underdimensioned current in the tank. "

" I agree, it's usually quite dangerous dosing vodka if inorganic nutrients are already undetectable. It's easily promoting aerobic bacterioplankton to build up bacterioplankton blooms. If this happens, vodka dosage should be stopped, activated carbon (charcoal) should be added and the skimmer should be switched to wet skimming.

Fish: some guys in Germany have reported the occurence of ectoparasitic fish deseases due to high bacteria load of the water (however, these were only few reports). If no aeration system is applied to the tank (e.g. skimmer), the water may become oxygen depleted due to increased aerobic bacteria metabolism (respiration). "

" yes, that's what it looks like (cloudy), maybe there are some slimy mats on the decoration. We only observed bacterioplankton blooms in case inorganic nutrients have almost been removed, but vodka was still added to the tank in high volumes. However, there's actually no concern despite oxygen depletion, but as a skimmer must be applied to the system when one starts the vodka method, there's actually no concern. Randy argued that a power failure could lead to quick oxygen consumption, what's highly dependend on the volume of vodka added in respect to the tank's net volume (means main tank plus the water in the sump).

Most pathogenic bacteria are specialised to their hosts, means that they usually do not survive in the open water without being associated with the host, and that it's questionable whether they are able to use a exogenous carbon source.
However, I've already wrote that a long term high bacterioplankton load (e.g. if no skimmer is applied to the tank and the bacteria are not removed) may settle on fish integuments. Although these bacteria are non-pathogenic, they may sensitize the fish for fish non-bacterial diseases.

There were few cases where some fish suffered diseases.
However, in all cases reported there was no proof that it's related to the vodka dosage. For example, one report in Germany came from a a guy who was keeping a Acanthurus leucosternon. He run his tank by vodka. At some stage he did siginifcant changes on his tank (removed rocks and built up a completely new rock formation), and introduced a freshly imported swarm of Pseudanthias tuca. After that he recognized the A. leucosternon to getting ill, and the fish infected most of his other fish. His conclusion was that it could only be due to the vodka.."

" aerobic bacteria may pull the phosphate out of your tank much more quickly than nitrate. If bacteria start to multiply due to the additional carbon source, then they take up nitrate and phosphate. So , if you've e.g. 100 mg/L nitrate, put 0.01 mg/L phosphate, it's likely that phosphate has been completely consumed by the bacteria right before nitrate would e.g. approach 50 mg/L. If this is the case, your corals and macroalgae are phosphorus limited, means that they do n ot have any phosphorus available. And usually such phosphorus limitations lead to acute belaching and coral die off. Actually that's a critical situation if you wanna start applying vodka to your tank. "


Yo ya te conté que lo utilizé en el pasado con buenos resultados........

Ahora, así como hay gente que lo ha utilizado con buenos resultados, también hay gente que se opone. De hecho, Eric Borneman se opuso a que se publicara el texto original del método en reefcentral.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/eb/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/eb/feature/index.php

[Yorch]

Alguien me ayuda con la traduccion de post de fatboy???

fatboy el texto que pusiste es estracto de los articulos de Borneman o del foro en reef central?

[Fatboy]

El extracto es lo que escribió el autor del "método vodka" y el cual algo participó en el post que te señalé. Ese extracto es justamente de ese post como de 40 páginas.

Para la traducción, puedes utilizar un traductor en línea. No son las mejores traducciones pero te dará la idea en forma rápida.

[Yorch]

Utilizo el de google pero me va pesimo :(

[Yorch]

ummmmm segun o que medio pude leer de los articulos de Eric, el opina que la cosa no es buena!!! Lo peor es que no se a quien rayos hacerle caso!!!!!

[Fatboy]

Yorch,

Te estás mareando mucho y yo creo que tu problema va por otro lado.

Tu skimmer no funciona como debería y de seguro, tu cama de arena no está funcionando. Mientras no arregles esos problemas, puedes hacer mil cosas y todavía tendrás problemas. Soluciona la raiz del problema primero.

Si así y todo sigues teniendo problemas, trata el método del Vodka...... funciona. Todos estaban maravillados por un tanque de Iwan en reefcentral y el utiliza o ha utilizado Vodka en su acuario. Si vieras los corales y los colores que estos tienen en su tanque, te darías cuenta de que el método no puede ser tan malo.

Lo principal es hacerlo de forma paulatina y no apresurada. Es ahí donde vienen los problemas.

[Yorch]

OK fatboy, voy a ponerme en la tarea de solucionar lo que me dices, y voy a poner en stand by lo del vodka.

[Fatboy]

Yorch,

Acá puedes ver las fotos del acuario que mencionaba y si te fijas, ahí el habla de como utiliza el Vodka

http://www.reeftalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23800

[Yorch]

Simplemente espectacular, con eso es con lo que yo sueño, pero a este paso creo que dificil lograrlo. Como curiosidad, otro acurio hermosos que se suma a mi lista con tubos T5!!!!, sera que son mejores que los MH??!!!