Tips For A New Wholesaler!!!

[widarecu]

Hi Anthony,



I use to read a lot of information about general topics on reef-keeping, an especially information coming from reliable sources where great, experimented and helpful people collaborate, people just like you.

Right now, I'm beginning to work in the wholesale field, just with the main goal to help the development of this beautiful hobby here in my country.

Actually, I'm beginning to distribute live stock in small quantities but the demand of this is growing little by little, so, right now I need to develop my installations to allow more live stock to be held in the best possible conditions and at the lowest price.

I've been reading a lot from Wet Web Media and I've been able to get really good tips but also, it has generated a lot of doubts that I would really thank you if you could help me to solve.

My idea right now, is to develop an efficient and (in a little while) expansible system to hold my actual demand (almost 100 marine fish each time for around 2 weeks).

What I know right know, is that I should go for the Centralized Filtration System for the reasons that you already should know (costs, maintenance, high bioload capability, etc.).

My main doubts right now are:

- Which UV lamp should I get?, should I get an UV lamp??
- Should I get a micron filter???, 20 micron cartridge filter is OK??
- Is Ok with 2 or 3 80-100 gallons tanks to hold them, connected to the centralized filtration system??
- is OK to hold theme with a right amount of live rock and sand, skimmer, UV Sterilizer and cartridge filter???, is that enough???

I think with just those questions, is a lot to ask in just one post,

Thanks in advice for all your help,

Sincerely,



Wilson

[Jesus Fontan]

puedes traduccir esto por favor,si vives en colombia no tendras problemas,gracias

[widarecu]

Hola a todos,


Sorry por la omision, aca va la traduccion:

Hola Anthony,


Suelo leer cantidades de información acerca de tópicos generales en el campo de la acuariofilia marina, especialmente información proveniente de fuentes confiables donde colaboran excelentes personas, experimentadas y dispuestas a ayudar, personas como Anthony. (Un poco de flores, jeeeeee!!)

Actualmente, estoy empezando a ingresar en el campo de la distribución, solo con la meta principal de ayudar a desarrollar este hermoso hobby en mi país.

Estoy empezando a distribuir seres vivos en pequeñas cantidades, pero la demanda esta aumentando de a pocos, lo cual me ha desarrollado la necesidad de mejorar mis instalaciones para poder mantener esta demandad en las mejores condiciones y al menor costo posible.

He estado leyendo mucho de Wet Web Media lo que me ha permitido obtener muy buenos consejos, pero también me ha generado una amplia cantidad de dudas las cuales realmente agradecería si me pudiera ayudar a solucionar.

Mi idea actualmente, es desarrollar un eficiente y expandible sistema a futuro para mantener mi demanda actual (algo así como 100 peces en cada importación por alrededor de 2 semanas).

Lo que se actualmente, es que debo irme por un sistema centralizado de filtración por las razones que Anthony ya debe conocer (costos, mantenimiento, soporte de alta carga biológica, etc.).

Mis principales dudas actualmente son:

- Que lámpara UV debería usar???, debería usar lámpara UV??
- debería usar un filtro mecánico de micrones??, un filtro con bolsas de 20 micras esta bien??
- Esta bien con 2 o 3 tanques de 80-100 galones cada uno, conectados todos al sistema central de filtración??
- Esta bien mantenerlos con una buena cantidad de roca viva, arena viva, skimmer, esterilizador UV y filtro de micrones????, es suficiente???

Creo que estas ya son suficientes dudas para un solo post,

Gracias con anterioridad por toda su ayuda,

Sinceramente,


Wilson

[Anthony Calfo]

Hola Wilson

Congratulations on your foray into the wholesale side of the aquarium hobby. The Spanish market needs(!) more good merchants to grow and expand! I wish you the very best of luck and will help you in any way that I can. If you are coming to the IAM conference in Madrid next week, we can discuss your business plan at some point too.

Regarding your questions:

--------------------------------

- Which UV lamp should I get?, should I get an UV lamp??

* NO... UV is a lost cause in many ways. Although it is VERY common in private and commercial aquarium systems, they rarely are serviced and maintained to work with optimal effectiveness if they even work at all! And even if you are the rare person that provides the maintenance needed to make UV work for you, it is is more expensive (labor, electricity and lamp replacement) than ozone and it is not as effective as ozone nor does it have as many benefits. I strongly recommend that you use ozone instead. This is what the most professional facilities in the world use as well as the best public aquaria. We should take their lead on this point. You can read my extended opinion and critique of UV here:

http://www.marinedepot.com/FORUMS/To....aspx?Update=1 UV - how to use it right! 2006

also see my comments on ozoen from the list of my favorite discussions:

http://www.marinedepot.com/FORUMS/Topic19836-13-1.aspx

---------------------------

- Should I get a micron filter???, 20 micron cartridge filter is OK??

* if you end up using UV, then 20 micron is not fine enough my friend. Its not even close. For UV to work effectively, this water will need to be filtered down to a minimum of 5 micron. Finer would be better (the UV would be more effective).

But without UV, then it is less important. In fact, its better to protein skim very aggressively and rely less on mechanical filtration. Do you have access to Euro-reef style skimmers? Or ASM styles? You can get these from America if you like and maybe consolidate shipments of drygoods with other Spanish merchants to hepl each other build your market strong! You can used a consolidated freight forwarder like www.kamino.com such as:

http://www.kamino.com/newsite/air-freight.asp

---------------------------

- Is Ok with 2 or 3 80-100 gallons tanks to hold them, connected to the
centralized filtration system??

* you will need a few larger vessels for larger specimens or peaceful batches of fishes, but mostly you will want to use smaller tanks (40-200l each) for keeping fishes as seperate as possible

---------------------

- is OK to hold theme with a right amount of live rock and sand,
skimmer, UV Sterilizer and cartridge filter???, is that enough???

you do not want any sand or live rock my friend. Although they are very good for display tanks with clean fish that have been quarantined, this cannot be used in commercial systems. The weekly stream of new, stressed and sick imported fishes present challenges that require pest and disease control as well as some medication. The living substrates like sand and rock will harbor the diseases as well as neutralize the medications. You must employ bare glass bottom tanks only for your holding systems.

I also suggest that you invest some money in travel to see some of the best facilitie in the world. You will learn much! There is Reef International in Italy, Coral Farm in Singapore and Quality Marine in Los Angeles. These are some of the best designed wholesale facilities in the world.

kindly, Anthony

[widarecu]

Hi Anthony,



Thanks a lot for your answers; it’s beginning to direct me to the right direction.

As I keep reading, going from the hobbyist to the wholesaler is a huge step because the good practices are real different from one to the other.

As you already know, the market here in south America is real bad, there are so few retailers and the final costs for a new aquarium are real expensive and as you can imagine, the income from an average employee is not as big as it could be in a normal developed country, so what I want to do, is to make my best to help develop this area here.

As I told you in the post, I’m just beginning as a hobbyist trying to jump to the wholesales world, and by now, it’s going fine, not with profits, but it’s OK for the beginning. Actually, I don’t have much money, I don’t even have the US Visa to be able to travel and know some of the facilities that you are telling me, I could go to Italy because I do have my Schengen Visa, but a trip to Italy is real expensive from here.

I would really thank you if you could guide me through this new project without the immediate possibility to previously know good facilities to follow as a model.

From the answer you gave me, I have some new doubts:

- If I shouldn’t have my filtration based on live rock and sand, what should it be based on????
- If I have bare bottom thanks, it won’t stress the new arrival fish in a higher grade???, can I have some rocks in the tanks to help them hide and feel a little bit better???
- How can I do to minimize the water changes????, here in Colombia, artificial salt cost around 100 - 150 dollars per box.
- If I go with the tank size you recommend me, maybe 140 littres tanks, how many should I get to begin holding around 100 fish (mixed species)??.

Again Anthony, thanks a lot,

Sincerely,



Wilson

Traduccion -----------------

Hola Anthony,


Muchas gracias por tus respuestas, están empezando a dirigirme en la dirección correcta.

A medida que sigo leyendo, voy dándome cuenta que el paso del aficionado al distribuidor es un gran paso debido a que las "buenas practicas" son ampliamente diferentes del uno al otro.

Como ya lo dijiste, el mercado acá en Sur América esta realmente mal, hay muy pocos distribuidores y los costos finales por un nuevo acuario son realmente altos y como te podrás imaginar, el ingreso de un empleado promedio no es tan amplio como lo puede ser en un país desarrollado, debido a esto, lo que quiero hacer es dar lo mejor de mi para ayudar a desarrollar esta área en mi país.

Como te comente, soy solo un aficionado tratando de saltar al mundo de la distribución y por ahora, voy bien, sin ganancias, pero esta bien para el inicio. Actualmente, no es que tenga mucho dinero para invertir y peor aun, ni siquiera tengo mi Visa a US, razones que no me permiten viajar a conocer algunas de las instalaciones que me recomiendas.

Realmente te agradecería si pudieras guiarme a través de este nuevo proyecto sin la posibilidad inmediata de previamente visitar buenas instalaciones para seguir como modelo.

De las respuestas que me diste, tengo algunas nuevas dudas:

- Si no debo tener mi filtración basada en arena y roca viva, en que debería estar basada???
- Si tengo tanques con el fondo vació, esto no estresara aun mas a los nuevos habitantes?, puedo tener algunas rocas en el tanque para ayudarlos a sentirse un poco mejor?
- Como puedo minimizar los cambios de agua?, acá en Colombia, la sal artificial tiene costos exagerados, cerca de 100 - 150 dólares por caja.
- Si voy con el tamaño de tanque que me recomiendas, tal vez tanques de 140 litros, cuantos debería tener para mantener 100 peces (varias especies)?

Nuevamente Anthony, muchas gracias,

Sinceramente,



Wilson

[Anthony Calfo]

- If I shouldn’t have my filtration based on live rock and
sand, what should it be based on????

A majority of wholesale facilities use very tall (bio-ball style) trickle towers for wet-dry filtration bvecause if can handle very large bioloads, off-gas ammonia directly(!) unlike any other filter practically... and will endure power interruptions better than any submerged filter media. The taller the better.


- If I have bare bottom thanks, it won’t stress the new arrival
fish in a higher grade???, can I have some rocks in the thanks to help
them hide and feel a little bit better???

It is a false presumption that fish need sand. Most do not live on or in sand but rather are attracted to hard substrates like rock, corals, caves. More importantly... the fish need to be processed optimally for health and wellness for you to be able to professionally move them down the "chain of custody" in the market to get to the consumer. With dim lights, good water flow, and glass bottoms to prvevent the accumulation of waste and pathogens... it is best. You will see all other facilities do this. You must invest in your business and travel to see at least one commercial facility in the world my friend. Otherwise you will lose much more money for learnign things the hard way in time


- How can I do to minimize the water changes????, here in
Colombia, artificial salt cost around 100 - 150 dollars per box.

If your business is successful and you plan well... you will see that your sales of fishes each week take away enough water that you do not have to worry about minimum water changes. The loss of saltwater will be built into the cost of the fishes sold if you do your business plan correctly. Please look for a piece of software that will help you write a good business plan. Maybe a local university has a business school where you can get free classes or advice too on how to write a good business plan?

- If I go with the tank size you recommend me, maybe 140
littres tanks, how many should I get to begin holding around 100 fish (mixed
species)??.

I do not know my friend... I would have to know what species sell best for your market, etc. Your best bet here is to visit and talk to the stores that you will be wholesaling to. Ask them how many of what kind of fish they sell each week to give you a fundamental idea of what to expect for tank numbers for holding.

[widarecu]

Hi Anthony,



I got the idea for the filtration system and I would work on it right away. Summarizing, I should get my Ozone system (Which brands would you recommend me???), a wet-dry central filtration system, Euro-Reef style skimmer, and that should work OK for my initial bio-load.

The species that the actual market demands are: small species of clownfish (ocellaris, true percula, sebae), tangs (Hepatus, yellow tang, sailfin tang, etc.), Lionfish, duarf angelfish, damselfish and some mixed small sized fish.

I actually knew what you told me about the sand needs from the fish and I was thinking on it just as a filtration medium, that’s all, also what I understood of what you told me, is that it is a good idea to provide some rocks in the thanks to provide a more comfortable habitat (here the rotation of live stock is not that fast yet, so the stocking time would be a little longer than the average).

About the business plan, I already have it covered, that's my father field and my business partner's mom field, jeeeee.

I'd really like you to know some of the local wholesalers here in Colombia just for you to have an idea of how bad is this field in my country, I already know most of them and believe me, in the salt water field, there is nobody here to learn from.

About the acclimation process, what do you think about the formaldehyde dips on arrival???.

I would like to get an opinion about the procedure that I'm constructing from all the reading about the correct acclimation process:

1. Fish arrival,
2. Temperature nivelation by bags floating (unopened).
3. Classification by species and genders.
4. Mix of fish in a bucket with the shipping water.
5. PH nivelation through addition of water from the destination tank for one hour.
6. Finally formaldehyde dip just before the entrance to their new home (how long should it last??).

Is that OK Anthony???

Thanks again,

Sincerely,


Wilson

Traduccion:

Hola Anthony,



Ya tengo la idea del sistema de filtración en lo cual trabajare inmediatamente. Resumiendo, debo conseguir un Ozonizador (Que marcas me recomiendas?), un sistema centralizado de filtración estilo Wet-Dry, Skimmer estilo Euro-Reef y ya, eso debería trabajar Ok para mi carga biológica.

Las especies que el mercado actual demanda son: pequeñas especies de peces payaso (ocellaris, true percula, sebae), cirujanos (Hepatus, yellow tang, sailfin tang, etc.), leones, Ángeles enanos, damiselas y algunas otras especies misceláneas de tamaños pequeños.

Sobre el tema de la arena, solo pensaba en ella como un medio de filtración, también, lo que entendí de lo que me dijiste, es que es buena idea proveer algunas rocas en los tanques para permitir un habitad mas confortable(menos estresante, acá la rotación de animales no es muy rápida todavía, lo cual lleva a que el tiempo de almacenamiento sea un poco mas largo que el promedio).

Sobre el plan de negocios, ya lo tengo cubierto, afortunadamente, ese es el campo de mi papa y el de la mama de mi socio, jeeee.

Realmente me gustaría que conocieras algunos de los distribuidores locales acá en Colombia solo para que tengas una idea de que tal mal esta este campo en mi país, yo ya conozco la mayoría de ellos y oréeme, en el campo de la acuariofilia marina, no hay nadie de quien aprender.

Sobre el procedimiento de aclimatación, que opinas sobre los baños en formaldehído a la llegada de los peces??

Me gustaría obtener tu opinión sobre el procedimiento que estoy construyendo de toda la lectura que he hecho sobre el correcto procedimiento de aclimatación:

1. Llegada de los peces.
2. Nivelación de temperatura a través de la flotabilidad de las bolsas sin destapar.
3. Clasificación por especies y géneros.
4. Mezcla de peces en un recipiente con todo y el agua con que llegaron.
5. Nivelación de PH a través de adición de agua del acuario destino por una hora.
6. Finalmente, baño en formaldehído justo antes de entrar en su nuevo hogar de paso (cuanto debería durar este baño??)

Es todo esto correcto Anthony??

Muchas gracias nuevamente,

Sinceramente,



Wilson

[widarecu]

I forgot one last question Anthony, I've been buying my live stock from Florida (MIA exactly) because of the shorter shipping times to Colombia. I always buy from All Fisheries, do you know something about them????, are they good enough about livestock and facilities quality???, do you know any other wholesalers better than them???

Thanks again my friend,


Wilson

[Marca_ACME]

Por favor widarecu, el foro es de habla hispana, aunque esta muy bien tener a anthoni como apoyo. Si no te importa seria conveniente traducir estos post al castellano para disfrute de todos. Por lo menos la parte que te corresponde.

Hi, this forum is in spanish languaje. Widarecu could you be so kind to translate your words. Sorry a lot of people don´t speak "INGLIS". Anthony, don´t worry about this, i mean only spanish(or people who speak spanish) must be write in both languajes or at least in spanish languaje to be more comprehensive for all the members.

[widarecu]

Hola Juan,


Ya estoy trabajando en las traducciones pero es un trabajo algo dispensioso, contando que me encuentro en mi oficina y se supone, estoy trabajando, jeeeeee.

Saludos,


Wilson